Emily Mason 0:04
Have you hired your doula and are waiting for the big day for your little one to arrive? Did you know your doula can do more for you than just support the birth that you want? Today's episode is all about knowing the things or to look can do for you during labor and for your postpartum. Thanks for joining us. This is Peggie pals.

Disclaimer 0:24
Um,
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Emily Mason 0:54
Welcome to preggy pals. My name is Emily Mason, and I will be your host today. If you haven't already, be sure to visit our website at New mommy media.com And subscribe to our weekly newsletter, which keeps you up to date on all episodes that we release each week. Another great way to stay updated is to hit the subscribe button in your podcast app. And if you're looking for a way to get even more involved with our show, then check out our online community. It's called Mighty moms. That's where we chat more about the topics discussed here on our show. And it's also an easy way to learn about our recordings so you can join us live. Our guests today are Tamela Hatcher and Kaile hunt. Tamela is a childbirth educator, birth doula and postpartum doula serving Central Iowa. She has coached nearly 3400 couples and childbirth education. She's also a professional trainer for all three fields including childbirth, education, birth doula and postpartum doula having trained almost 1000 people and becoming childbirth educators and doulas since 2015. Our other mama Joining us today is Kaile Hunt, who is our Podcast Producer. She is joining us to talk about her experience working with a doula Kaile, can you tell us a little bit about your family? Hi, yes.

Kaile Hunt 2:17
So I have a tea. She's almost one and a half years old. So I remember. I hired my Doula very early on. I was like six months pregnant, maybe four months pregnant. It was right in the second trimester anyway. And I'll get into it more as we go on into the topic of the day, but my Doula didn't make it to my birth. My birth was too fast. So I used her as my postpartum doula, which is very exciting. And whenever I'm ready to try to have more kids, I will definitely be utilizing a postpartum doula again. So this topic today is very exciting.

Emily Mason 2:54
Awesome. I will also be chiming in on my experience as I'm a postpartum doula educator, and helping to kind of talk about the difference between a birth doula a childbirth educator and a postpartum doula, and what the differences and similarities are. But first, let's take a quick break.

Today, we are discussing the difference between a birth doula and a postpartum doula and the ways that they can help during an after you've given birth. Most people think of doulas being in the delivery room with you, but they can do so much more in supporting you as a new mom, a new parent and as a new family. So Tamela This is a very easy question, but also a very loaded question. What is a doula?

Tamela Hatcher 3:49
A doula is a person that comes alongside of you with academic knowledge? Okay,

Emily Mason 3:55
so is there really discernible differences between birth doula and postpartum doulas?

Tamela Hatcher 4:02
Absolutely. The whole model of care is different. The reason birth, doulas and postpartum doulas came about, and my area was women felt totally supported in their childbirth education. Then they had the continuum of care and felt totally supportive with their birth doula. And after two weeks, that care fell off. And then they were lost. And we were hearing a lot of people say, you know, what, why aren't we supporting the full person in the postpartum period that next 1000 days is critical to get off to a good start. So that's really where I got involved in the postpartum doula care, because I felt like it was true, it was right. We do everything to surround and protect and uplift the mother and then we just pull the rug out from under her after two weeks and go, you know, good luck. And we think that this is the honeymoon period and you're gonna love being a mom. And that's not the case for everyone. You really truly need someone to come alongside of you that has that knowledge and support and all the tools to do the job. A partner may be wonderful, but they just don't have all the tools to do the job.

Emily Mason 5:21
Absolutely. And Kaile, you touched on this a little bit. But does your postpartum doula and your birth doula have to be the same person? Or are they different people? Or how does that look for new moms?

Kaile Hunt 5:32
Yeah, so in my case, when I was looking for a doula, some of them did specify that they are only a birth doula or in some specified they're only a postpartum doula. However, it's an easy question that you can ask. I asked what the package included when I purchased, you know, to have my Doula with me. And she was both a postpartum and a birth doula, which was amazing. So it was the same lady who I loved. So that's just an easy question that you can ask. And I do know that in some packages, they include a certain portion to care for mom after baby is born, you know, and that's what I utilize. She was, you know, supposed to be at the birth, I had a very quick labor, and that's okay. And then, you know, I had her for six weeks, she I could text her anytime of the day. And I had three appointments that with her every two weeks, that was about two hours long. So it was absolutely lovely. I remember I would like, look forward until like, oh, you know, it's this Tuesday, she's gonna come for two hours, and we can just literally chat about me, you know, because I feel like in those early days, it's so much about the baby. And that's amazing. It shouldn't be about the baby, but you should, you know, wiggle in some mom time too. So mom can talk about herself and her healing and her mental health. So yeah, in my case, it was the same doula.

Emily Mason 6:49
Absolutely. That's really cool. I think. Definitely taking that time to have that knee time. I think, in general, we get so wrapped up in the baby and our spouse and all the things to try to keep that perfect house running. And sometimes it's nice just to unplug for a minute,

Tamela Hatcher 7:10
Kaile, I loved what you said about helping unplug and unpack the baggage so many times, there's no place to talk about birth and what went right what went wrong, what you do differently. And that postpartum doula does a great job of just helping you realize what you liked and what you might change for the next birth. So again, it could be a collaboration with the same or a different doula, because you're so overwhelmed that you parenthood

Kaile Hunt 7:40
and I felt like it was easier to talk to my Doula rather than talking to my mom or a friend because one, a doula is very trained and experienced. And so talking to her was just like, she knew exactly what I meant when I was like, wow, birth was interesting, not what I expected, you know, and my mom probably would have said something else. So it's just so great to unpack with someone who's not a friend, but is a friend, if that makes sense. You know, she understands what I went through. And that's her, you know, line of work.

Emily Mason 8:09
Absolutely. So where would a mom go and look for a birth doula or a postpartum doula? What are the sites that are out there? The resources that are out there? Where do you start?

Tamela Hatcher 8:27
Well, from my point of view, I would start with doula match.net. Mainly because it gives you an idea in your own zip code of where and you can find a doula who's available, how much they charge. You might find a doula that is wonderful, but they're outside of your budget, and doulas for birth. doulas is one set fee versus postpartum doulas typically are either a package or they're set by the hour, cost per hour. So you can find some good information there on doula. match.net. It's not org. So keep that in mind. And the other places of course, I'm biased. I love ICA international childbirth education association. You can find someone whether you're in Hawaii or whether you're in China, or the little state of Iowa in which I come from, you put your zip code in and you can find a birth doula, postpartum doula, or a childbirth educator in your area. Absolutely.

Emily Mason 9:31
And I will just chime in and give some other resources that I have used personally. Chiropractors, I have partnered with chiropractors in my area as a new mom. I went to the chiropractor with my little one, and she had adjustments and while I was there, I talked to the chiropractors I was telling them, You know what it is that I did, and they talked about how new moms came in and they They were asking for referrals or they could tell they were struggling and they didn't know who to refer them to. So, chiropractors a great place a pediatricians office is another great place. Your OBGYN midwife asking those questions asking for those referrals are all great places to start.

Tamela Hatcher 10:21
That's great advice, MLA. And absolutely those folks work with you and they know your history. And they do know most of the people in the community. So that's really something that I'm glad you added.

Emily Mason 10:40
So, Kaile, why would one want a postpartum doula you kind of talked about, you know, your mom versus a birth doula versus a postpartum doula. But really, what are the added benefits outside of having somebody to talk to what else does a postpartum doula do?

Kaile Hunt 11:03
I definitely wanted a postpartum doula. Because just from talking with friends who recently had a baby, they told me the first six weeks, they're tough. Your hormones are everywhere. You're, you know, transitioning whether you have you know, your first baby or your second baby. And for me, it was my first baby. And so I really wanted a postpartum doula, just to be there for me and to support me and my husband, I kind of knew that sleep wasn't going to be the best. And so it was great to have someone who was well rested talking to me and, and reassuring my, you know, intrusive, motherly thoughts, you know, is this my baby sleeping enough? Is she feeding enough? I chose to breastfeed my daughter. And so she was helping me, you know, make sure the latch was good, making sure you know, she's getting enough milk. And so it was it was really lovely. And not only you know about the baby, but then my postpartum doula would bring me food, how lovely she would bring me sourdough bread she made, you know, and just little snacks. And then she would stop by Starbucks before she would come like, Hey, I know your order, you know, can I bring you something. And so it's just really to just, I guess, make mom baby and my husband, partner to feel just at home and more, just more regular, because in those first early days, it's a lot to think about. It's doctor visits, it's, you know, breastfeeding struggles. It's making sure your newborn sleeping, mom's sleeping. And so it was just nice to make sure that there was a level headed person there. And in my case, my husband's in the military. We did not have family, where we were living in Hawaii at the time. And so my family was all on the mainland in California. And so it was nice to have that postpartum doula be there as a friend, as you know, she was our family member, honestly, for the first six weeks, just checking in on us and being there to support us.

Emily Mason 12:47
Absolutely, and Tamela adding from the postpartum doula side, what else can a postpartum doula do?

Tamela Hatcher 12:57
Well, I think truly, education and brain development is big. There's so much that children are learning in those first few weeks of life. And the parents are in the survival mode, sometimes in the honeymoon mode other times, and what I find is more people hire postpartum doulas and birth doulas in their second birth rather than their first. And I always scratched my head and wondered about that. But I do think that, because they realize what they, I maybe I should back up and say they didn't know what they didn't know. And so on the second birth, they realize the partner needs to be there to support mom. And they may have some skill set, but not enough. So that postpartum doula if you can imagine coming in, and having little eye acuity activities, and not just having them that she brings all the stuff so that mom can learn alongside of her and she doesn't have to go gather things up or go to the store and buy things. It's just that time that puts the calmness and you know, you're doing the best for your baby. When you're looking at the physical, emotional, social and intellectual development. Right out of the gate. They're learning a whole new language in two years, think about the rest of us that are doing that don't to want to stack the deck in their favor. And moms have the best intentions. But my goodness, there's not a time in this life that were more exhausted for most of us than that early postpartum period. So that's another huge thing that the family can come alongside with the postpartum doula and do well, but

Emily Mason 14:44
thank you for explaining that more. We've got more postpartum doula questions coming up.

But first,

let's take a quick break.

Welcome back to preggy pals. We are continuing In our topic on birth and postpartum doulas, I'm going to start with Tamela. And kind of ask you how important is it to have a postpartum doula in the early weeks of motherhood really those first two weeks?

Tamela Hatcher 15:16
I think it's vital. There's so much that is happening in the birth centers or the hospital to support you. And then two to three days later, you would go home, and that just dissipates. And maybe well intentioned moms, as Kaile and mentioned, would be helpful. But sometimes they are back 20 years or 30 years and what the research is saying, and maybe they're trying to give your baby cereal and you're trying to breastfeed, and they're telling you that they couldn't breastfeed, that postpartum doula is vital in just helping you meet your goals. It's like a tour guide for birth in my mind, you say you want to go to France, they don't try to take you to Italy. They take you where you want to go. If you say breastfeeding is high on my list, they're going to help you. And if they feel like you need more advanced help, they have all the resources to connect you quickly. When you're overwhelmed, and you want to do it, but you don't know where to reach. They're going to help you find that referral list and the best breastfeeding support. That's in a higher level if you're having complications or troubles, for example. So yeah, it's vital, absolutely vital. I can't imagine running a race without practice. I can't imagine taking a test without studying and I truly can't imagine giving birth without preparation and support in advance as well as during someone to come alongside of you. So huge. Awesome,

Emily Mason 16:51
awesome. Awesome. So moving into I think the million dollar question. The question I get asked the most but what does it cost to have a postpartum doula? Does insurance cover these costs? Whether it's, I guess, a postpartum doula or a birth doula, what, what are the costs and how do we prepare for those costs? So Kaile, can you talk a little bit about I know you have some other experience with the military and the insurance there, but can you kind of walk us through the cost and insurance and how all of that worked for you?

Kaile Hunt 17:31
Yeah, of course. So I have TRICARE and I, it's interesting, actually. So I was in Hawaii, when I was pregnant and gave birth to my daughter. Interesting enough, TRICARE, I believe, actually just said that they will cover a doula if you're birthing outside of a military hospital. Well, I was birthing at a military hospital. So unfortunately, I did not get my Doula covered. But me and my husband when I was pregnant, we planned for this. I plan to have a doula I planned it all out. So we put money aside and where we went through to get our doula which was best birth Hawaii. I believe they just serve as a wahoo for those who are listening. Anyway, and so they had different packages, depending on the different types of doulas you wanted, which I found was really interesting. So there's, you know, novice, doulas, and then it goes all the way up to like intermediate doulas. And then, you know, very experienced doulas. And so within our price range, I want to say it was around $1,200. It included you know, my Doula calm and she was also credentialed to be a postpartum doula as well and a lactation consultant as well, which is exactly what I wanted. So my Doula cost 1200. However, there was other packages that were included that were you know, more senior doulas who had done over, you know, 100 births or 1000 births. I can't remember off the top of my head. But basically you pay for what you get in terms of experience with which is what I used with best versus Hawaii. I found interesting. And again, I paid out of pocket but I do know now TRICARE does cover some doula coverages. For instance, I had a friend who, you know, same thing. She was a military wife gave birth at an outside army hospital and her doula was covered, which is really lovely. So it just kind of depends, but I think as of right now, you know, I would budget to include a doula include extra, especially if you want the postpartum. my Doula said, you know, we can pay or we can negotiate something where I can come you know, past the six weeks, which is also helpful, but I just used her for the six weeks.

Emily Mason 19:36
Awesome and Tamela What about for I know you, you know, birth, doulas and childbirth educators. What What's the cost there? Does insurance cover any of those costs?

Tamela Hatcher 19:48
Well, birth, doulas, yes. And Kaile mentioned TRICARE. They have been vetted for TRICARE and really we're working hard to get doulas with the ever Since of reducing C sections by 50%, and length of labor, there's a lot of evidence now to say it's financial beneficial to hospitals in clients as well. So, with that knowledge, I see that on the horizon, there's going to be more and more coverage, even, of course, your flex spending and so forth. But it's the same model as what Kaile had mentioned 500 for a novice doula starting out, and I just looked before we logged in today and started this discussion. And $1,800 in my zip code was the highest that I found, and she had attended many, many births. So that's birth doula. Now for childbirth, Ed 90% of childbirth educators work for a facility and therefore get paid by a facility. Very, very few 10% or less work independently. So that's more per hour. And it ranges. Just vastly, you might see $50 to $300 an hour for childbirth education. And it depends on the area of the country. That's much harder to find a private practice childbirth educator versus a birth doula because it's the 9010 factor, where birth doulas, 90% of the time work independently outside of facility.

Emily Mason 21:25
All right, well, that's some good information. I do know from the postpartum side that there are a lot of changes happening. Kaile mentioned TRICARE. And they are one of the first to start covering the postpartum doulas, and we know that some private insurances are starting to cover that as well. Another place that you could look is through carat, there's a lot of postpartum doulas out there that are carat certified. And there's a reimbursement kind of process for that. So just start looking look around, ask questions, make sure that I always say Never leave a stone unturned. And you might be able to find that little niche in your community that you didn't know about. So our final question, um, and there may be a mom out there that just hasn't you know, I've already given birth and I'm three weeks in to this motherhood journey. But is it too late now to hire a postpartum doula? Tamela Is there ever a too late time to get a postpartum doula? Absolutely

Tamela Hatcher 22:46
not. We know that sometimes in postpartum adjustment times. It doesn't even show up until a few weeks into being a mom. And so by all means, you can have postpartum doula they are totally versed from two weeks, that's usually when they kick in birth, doulas and postpartum doulas have a little bit of overlap in those first two weeks, but you want to introduce the postpartum doula within that two weeks, and they'll carry you through the first three years. And so of course, some people have a big life change, and maybe it's two years into their little one's existence, and two years after their birth, but that's when they need it. So, of course, when you're struggling it's harder to find someone when you're in the deep water taking that deep dive. But if you know that from you know, birth to three years, these people are specially trained and they can come alongside you at any point when you want or need help. And I always say, you know, you can only get so many onesies at your baby shower, why not? Talk to the other people attending and get a birth doula or a postpartum doula by a couple hours. There couldn't be a better gift in my mind than someone like Julius said brought some food brought a coffee give you time to take a shower and and feel full again. Put the wind in your sails. So what a perfect gift. So yeah, I think up to three years, I would definitely be using a postpartum doula as needed.

Kaile Hunt 24:31
How interesting sorry if I can ask a question for either you Tamela Emily, I'm kind of curious what does a postpartum doula look like in different years? So like, for instance, if I hire a postpartum doula, you know, at one year, you know, or two year I think that is so interesting, and I honestly might utilize that, you know, my daughter is only a year and a half, but I'm really curious. I didn't even know postpartum doulas went that far.

Emily Mason 24:57
Our postpartum doulas are Are through the first 1000 days. And I have seen them used from transitioning from one child to two children. So that postpartum doula comes in. And as mom is getting ready to have her second baby, having those conversations, a lot of I would say like play where they do the hands on, you know, there's going to be another baby setting up the nursery helping include the younger, the now older brother or sister in the conversations transitioning into preschool. So we have this great kind of disparity in America where we have daycare, but there's not a lot of structure. And we don't have preschools, until about four. So we have this big gap of time, and people are very concerned with you know, is is my child on track is there things that I can do to help. So your postpartum doula can come in and do a lot of that play a lot of the activities with hand eye coordination, and really just help bridge those gaps from that preschool to birth of what what is out there. So what we do is we help our postpartum doulas really understand brain development when the connections happen in the brain, when you can cross from left brain to right brain. Upstairs to downstairs brain, we talked about all the different connections happening and how to really utilize the stage that they're in, as well as the stuff that you have in your home. So I'm a proponent of, I don't want you to go out and buy a bunch of stuff. I always cringe when I walk down the toy aisle and I see best for 18 to 24 months, I'm the toys are very subject to what that child actually needs. And so I always feel guilty buying my 12 month old, a 24 month old toy, but that's where she's at developmentally. So my postpartum doula is able to come in and say, Hey, these are, you know, some great resources, here's some games that you can play some activities that you can play, to just get them ready for that next stage. And then any transitions moving, new baby divorce, there's a lot of big life changes that can happen in those first three years. And that person is there to kind of walk you through those pieces. And again, be your sounding board, because not only is your kiddo going through that, but you're going through that too. And that postpartum doula can come alongside and when you have the terrible twos happening, and your kid is throwing tantrums, that person can come in and say, okay, you know, like, Do you need an hour this week that you can just be and get things done, and I'd be happy to come in and play. And it's just a great reprieve for moms during during that, that time where it's all kind of up in the air at times.

Kaile Hunt 28:34
That is amazing.

Tamela Hatcher 28:37
One of the things I love on postpartum my favorite part actually of postpartum doula is doing a sibling class where they make birthday cards for their new babies. They check their safe toys with basic toilet paper rolls, and they get to put their Legos through it and see if that's something while Mom is breastfeeding or baby sleeping that they play with. They practice diapering practice safe holding and squabbling. And it's just a way for you to be offensive, maybe, instead of defensive about some of the normal jealousy feelings that babies have. In a win, the new baby comes in if they're to, and adding a new person to the home can be a real challenge. So I like what Emily said. And it's a time for moms to unplug. And really look at this is you know, you're trying to get your baby to share at this age, they're still parallel playing, they're going to play side by side, they're not going to share at this age, that's an unrealistic expectation. And so I love it. With the child development and brain development that postpartum doulas have to help parents understand where their child should be and not what they want their child to do. It's just not always realistic.

Kaile Hunt 29:52
That's amazing. I you guys have taught me something. I'm like, Hmm, maybe I should be looking for a new postpartum doula. For my one and a half year old, I just had no idea that it went that far. That is so cool.

Emily Mason 30:05
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much to all of our guests who joined us for this episode today. Be sure to check out new mommy media.com, where we will have all of our podcasts, plus videos and more.

That wraps up our show for today. Thank you for listening. If you love Preggie pals as much as we do, please consider checking out the amazing businesses that sponsor our show week after a week. And we'd also love for you to tell another pregnant mama about this resource, which of course is absolutely free. And if you want to check out some of our other podcasts we produce such as newbies, parent savers, the boob group and twin talks, then visit our website at New mommy media.com. Thanks for listening to preggy pals, your pregnancy your way.

Disclaimer 31:02
This has been a new mommy media production. The information and material contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Statements and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of new mommy media, and should not be considered facts. While such information and materials are believed to be accurate. It is not intended to replace or substitute for professional medical advice or care and should not be used for diagnosing or treating health care problem or disease or prescribing any medication. If your questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby, please seek assistance from a qualified health care provider