The Boob Group
New Mom Breastfeeding Manual: The Second Week

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Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription.

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Robin Kaplan: So, you’ve just had your baby. Congratulations. Whether you are a first-time mom or this is your second or third time around, what happens during that second week after your baby is born can make an impact on your breastfeeding relationship. So, what are the common challenges that breastfeeding mothers face during the second-week postpartum and what can you do to maximize your success? Today, we are featuring the third episode on our series: “The new breastfeeding mom manual.” Our episode today focuses on “Breastfeeding during the second week and I’m thrilled to welcome back Ashley Treadwell to the show. Ashley is a private practice International Board Certified Lactation Consultant in San Diego California and this is The Boob Group Episode 100.

[Theme Music/ Intro]

Robin Kaplan: Welcome to The Boob Group broadcasting from the Birth Education Centre of San Diego. The Boob Group is your weekly online on-the-go support group for all things related to breastfeeding. I’m your host Robin Kaplan. I’m also an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant and owner of the San Diego Breastfeeding Centre.

I cannot believe that we have actually made it to our 100th episode. That is unbelievable. So, in honor of our 100th episode, we are doing a little celebrating in our studio and we are also taking a call-in from one of our listeners. So Mj, can you tell us a little bit about these details.

Mj Fisher: Yes. Well, just to celebrate our 100th episode; we’re going to be giving away one-year subscription to The Boob Group. So, I’m going to give our phone number here shortly on our social media and whoever calls gets to win. We’ve had like such awesome responses to people in our Virtual Panellists Program. So, it’s really awesome. We have a lot of people that are contributing when we are posting. All these questions that we’re posting for our episodes the same questions that we’re asking our panelists. So, it’s just really nice to be able to have you out there in wherever you are because we’re all over the world pretty much. But, you’ve got to share your experiences and be able to give your opinions even though you can’t be on the studio and be a panelist but you can still contribute.

Robin Kaplan: Awesome. Thanks, Mj.

Mj Fisher: Yes, you’re welcome.

Robin Kaplan: Well, we have three lovely panelists in the studio today. Actually, two panelists on the studio today sorry – ladies, will you please introduce yourselves.

Erin Esteves: Hi my name is Erin Esteves also known as OG Mama Sita. I have one boy who is 2 ½.

Robin Kaplan: All right, awesome. Sara?

Sara Thornhill: I’m Sara Homes and this is my son, Charlie he’s almost four weeks and my daughter is 2 ½.

Robin Kaplan: Okay, fantastic. Well, welcome to the show ladies.

[Theme Music]

Robin Kaplan: Before we start our interview, we’re just kind of jump in to something that’s been going on over the internet. This was a situation where breastfeeding situation which we always love to talk about on The Boob Group. The topic is from a leaky boob article that says: “Normalizing breastfeeding, flying the friendly skies – delta says no.”

So, if you’re not too familiar with this situation. There was a mama who goes by classic hippie. She had asked Delta: “What is your breastfeeding policy?” She said: “I’ll be planning on flying with my 10-week old son and he won’t nurse with a cover or take a bottle.” Unfortunately, Delta came back and said: “Well, Lindsay unfortunately you were not able to breastfeed if you don’t have a cover-up. I’m sorry.” Then went on to further say that: “I would suggest pumping if you can and bringing it onboard with you. You are allowed to bring breast milk onboard.” So, clearly the sky is opened up and the world imploded when this was going on over Twitter. Lots and lots of comments going back and forth and so, our friend Jessica over at The Leaky Boob decided to step in and see what type of mediation she could do with this whole process.

So, Delta did come back and said that: “They apologized and that they felt badly.” So, they also said that: “Delta welcomes breastfeeding mothers and babies and all of our flights and we sincerely apologize for the misinformation.” So, the question that I would like to bring up to our group today is just: “What can Delta do now to communicate a clear family, a friendly policy that supports breastfeeding? Also trains their employees – clearly their social media representative accordingly so that when situations like this don’t happen, don’t happen again.” So, Erin what are your thoughts?

Erin Esteves: I think appropriate signage would be good. Not only in the waiting areas before you board but perhaps also on the pamphlets that are in the emergency exits and such something to indicate that not only is it permitted but it’s welcomed. So, if you’re uncomfortable with it look away.

Robin Kaplan: Okay, I like that idea. How about you Sara? What kind of comes to your mind?

Sara Thornhill: Well, in my experience in the professional world, there’s a lot of HR Training like even if it’s just online annual required training that we’ve had to take and I’ve never seen anything actually related to breastfeeding and women’s rights. It occurs to me that maybe Delta isn’t the only place that – my supervisor for example was just uninformed. She did this 30 years ago and so, by no fault of her own. She doesn’t know what my rights were as her employee. So, maybe something that even [inaudible 00:05:43-44] start.

Robin Kaplan: That’s a great idea. How about you Ashley, what are your thoughts?

Ashley Treadwell: I agree. I think that it’s just a case of people being misinformed. I think this PR Person, their job shouldn’t been probably the research the answer from someone before they shut the answer out. But, it’s obvious that they haven’t been informed what the laws are. So, they needs to be formal training and I think Delta should announce to their potential customers that their doing this formal training so that women won’t have to worry about how they’ll be treated if they’re breastfeeding on a plain.

Robin Kaplan: Yes, great idea. How about you Mj?

Mj Fisher: I was just going to say that: “It’s funny that I could online, I read a lot of comments of people say that somebody makes a big stink over something like this and that is just one employee.” But, that’s the fact is that: “One employee doesn’t know that this is not supposed to happen.” So, it’s not that the mom is making a big stink, it’s the employee is the one that actually made this happen because of making that comment. So, more so the reason why that Delta has to step-up and say: “Even though this isn’t our policy, we need to re-inform our employees obviously because there’s one person but this one person made a huge issue.” So, I just think its funny when people say on the social media is that: “I hate it when one person just makes a big stink about something but that’s not the case. The person was doing what they’re supposed to be doing, feeding their baby and then this person comes on and says that: “They shouldn’t when it’s that’s not their place.” It’s just none of their business.

Robin Kaplan: So, I think everyone brings up an excellent point. It kind of brings to mind to me – any type there’s been, any time there’s been a nursing in public harassment incident. For example in San Diego, it all comes back to just one: “There usually isn’t a policy in place.” Then, also just coming up with just educating the staff members on maybe the policy that needs to be created or just the fact that what the law is – the hard part is with flying.

Sara Thornhill: You’re in the sky right and you don’t know.

Robin Kaplan: Because you are in the sky and so, where you’re on land before you leave. You were under those laws of that state and when you land again, you’re in the laws of those states. But, when you’re up in the air, the laws don’t necessarily – it’s hard to see what they fall under which makes more sense than for these airline companies to actually come up with their own policies. Then, shoot if they have a really good support of policy and they put it out there through Twitter, stuff like that. They probably get more people flying.

Mj Fisher: So, what does happen though when you’re flying like that’s kind of like on the sea like the laws don’t apply?

Robin Kaplan: To be honest, I’m not quite sure. I felt like it was national law. But, I’m not quite sure. I know that the United States has some sort of breastfeeding in public policy and law in place but it’s not nearly strict for example as in California where you be not discriminate. Yes, exactly. Lots of works to be done but you always need something

Erin Esteves: I have power sister.

Robin Kaplan: I know you always got to start somewhere. All right, thanks for sharing ladies.

Ashley Treadwell: Hello.

Gemma: Hi. Did I win?

Robin Kaplan: You did. Who is this?

Gemma: Tell me I won.

Robin Kaplan: You won. Who is this?

Gemma: Gema Ituna. I did.

Robin Kaplan: Gema.

Gemma: I’m driving so I was like: “I have to win.”

Robin Kaplan: You won mama.

Gemma: I won a year subscription to The Boob Group.

Robin Kaplan: You did. Well, cool Gemma. You won a free subscription, a year subscription to The Boob Group Club and we so appreciate you calling in.

Gemma: Wonderful. Tell everybody I said: “Hi.”

Robin Kaplan: We will.

Mj Fisher: All right, thanks Gemma.

Gemma: Thanks.

Robin Kaplan: So, today on The Boob Group, we’re discussing: “Breastfeeding during the second week of your baby’s life.” Our expert Ashley Treadwell is an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant with the San Diego Breastfeeding Centre. Thanks for joining us Ashley and welcome back to the show.

Ashley Treadwell: Thank you for having me.

Robin Kaplan: Sure, so Ashley now that we’re in the second week, mom’s fuller milk is hopefully in by now. What does normal breastfeeding look like during the second week and how often does the baby feed and for typically how long?

Ashley Treadwell: Second week looks a lot like the first week especially the second half of the first week when mom’s fuller milk came in. Babies normally still eating eight or more times in 24 hours so that works up to every two or three hours. It should be feeding from both breasts anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes.

Robin Kaplan: Total?

Ashley Treadwell: Total, yes.

Robin Kaplan: Okay, cool. Ashley, do you recommend that parents still keep track of babies’ pees, poops and feedings for the second week and if so, when can they stop doing this?

Ashley Treadwell: We do. We recommend that they keep track of that until the baby has reached their birth weight. Once the baby is back at birth weight as waking their own to feed, they can stop recording.

Robin Kaplan: Okay, cool. So ladies, did you find that your baby really started to wake up during the second week and did breastfeeding look any different compared to what that first week of life looked like. Sara, how about you?

Sara Thornhill: I think it started to pick up more probably a little bit more frequency. In the second week, I started noticing I guess what you call “Cluster feedings.” I also notice that some spontaneous, longer stretches of sleep though. I remember sleeping from 8 PM to midnight and thinking: “My God. That is probably the longest I have or will sleep for a long time.” But, I guess as I looked back, he was definitely cluster feeding before that. So, a little bit of the change.

Robin Kaplan: Okay, how about you Erin?

Erin Esteves: Well, Cash was pretty much cluster-feeding from the Get-go. I’ve said before that he was a boobaphile. He was born that way. So, it was like she said: “It was a continuation of the first week but just a little more dramatic I think.”

Robin Kaplan: So, like all of the sudden – they know what a full belly feels like and they want now. So Ashley, how much weight should a baby be gaining during that second week and when should he/she be back to birth weight?

Ashley Treadwell: I’m sorry. I’m so distracted by this baby over here. He just did a little side like Elvis’ smile. So, babies should be gaining about a half ounce to an ounce a day which works out to about 4 to 7 ounces a week. Breastfeeding’s going well, baby will reach their birth weight be back at their birth weight at day 10 to 14. But I think it’s also important for moms to know that sometimes it takes a little bit longer and that’s okay. We work with moms where it maybe 2 ½ weeks, 3 weeks and usually indicates that they need some help but it’s not the end of the world.

Robin Kaplan: Okay and sometimes they can be that baby just lost a ton of weight in the beginning because of a long Epidural or baby ends up peeing and pooping like six times in the first day and really they only need to do once.

Ashley Treadwell: So, I think when we’re counting that half-ounce to an ounce what’s really important is: “You need to look at it from their lowest weight not from their birth weight because that’s the baseline – becomes the baseline.”

Robin Kaplan: What were you thinking Erin? You’re nodding your head.

Erin Esteves: I was just like: “Wow. That’s great.” Had I known that, I probably wouldn’t have been so terrified that I was starving my child.

Robin Kaplan: Yes, absolutely. So, what does that look like about how much milk does a baby need per feeding during that second week? Does it change as much as it did on that first week?

Ashley Treadwell: It does. The first half of a week, they need about an ounce and a half or so. Then, on the second half, it goes up to two and a half ounces. That remains pretty standard. It’s not going to continue to jump up the way it did because just a few days ago, they were taking half an ounce. Well, five millilitres the first day. So, by the end of the week, they should be at 2 to 2 ½ ounces per feeding.

Robin Kaplan: Okay and is it possible to overfeed a baby during the second week? Does it differ if a mom is breastfeeding, they’re supplementing or bottle feeding?

Ashley Treadwell: It’s very difficult to over feed a breast-fed baby. Babies who fed at the breast have a lot of self-regulation. With the bottle and if you’re supplementing, sometimes it is possible to over feed. Baby with bottles, they don’t have to work even though soar nipples, the milk still pours into the baby’s mouth and so, they can often take milk that they wouldn’t normally. There are situations moms with really big supplies and very active let-downs, overactive let-downs where babies can be overfed. They take way too much into feeding and we’re talking: “These are babies we’re looking for a baby to weigh or I’m sorry to gain 4 to 7 ounces.” This is a baby that’s gaining a pound a week. The baby can be really gassy. So, that maybe a situation where the baby’s overfeeding but it’s not very common.

Robin Kaplan: Okay and ladies, did your baby have challenges gaining weight in the first two weeks and if so, did you have to supplement? Erin?

Erin Esteves: Cash had a very difficult time gaining weight because he was tongue-tied, severely tongue-tied and I had hypersensitivity. So, those two combined really made for very difficult breastfeeding experience especially in the beginning. So, not only did we have to supplement with formula but I was also pumping and then my husband was finger-feeding Cash. So, we had to watch him diligently to make sure that he was eating and not peeing everything away. So, that’s why I was like: “I wish I would have been told to consider his lowest weight instead of his birth weight.” I think it would have saved me a lot of anguish.

Robin Kaplan: How about you Sara?

Sara Thornhill: My daughter had a lot of challenges as she lost probably 10% of her birth weight by about the end of the first week. I attribute a lot of that to our choice to swaddle her. That’s just my experience and so she would sleep for long periods of the day. I didn’t know to wake her and so, by the time we were well into our first week, we were sort of down a path that she wasn’t latching well. She wasn’t nursing well and of course she was very, very hungry. So, it took us some time to get better. We didn’t supplement because thank goodness, the pediatrician that we were seeing told me that: “Medically speaking, she was still fine and I should just continue nursing.” I called the [Inaudible] leader who encouraged me to just continue nursing. So, we just kept doing our thing. Charlie here, gained – he was I think half an ounce heavier than his birth weight by day seven or something. So, I threw up the swaddle and just nursed all the time and Voila.

Robin Kaplan: You have the benefit of doing it before as well. So, that’s what always makes a nice a second time, third time mom. You’ve already set up the pathways. So, you have more room to create some milk. All right, fantastic; well, when we come back Ashley will discuss: “Common challenges for the breastfeeding mom during that second week and ways to overcome them.” So, we’ll be right back. Welcome back to the show. We are here with Ashley Treadwell, an International Board Certified Lactation Consultant in San Diego and we are talking about: “What breastfeeding looks like during that second week.” So Ashley, what are some common challenges that a breastfeeding mom may face during baby’s second week?

Ashley Treadwell: The biggest challenge is: “Mom and baby are still trying to get breastfeeding down.” It can take 3, 4 or 5, 6 weeks for everybody to feel really comfortable. So, I think that’s second week, moms are probably still dealing the law of uncertainty, hoping that everything’s going well, wondering if the baby is getting enough. If mom had some soreness with nipples; initially, it should be resolve by the second week. If it isn’t that could indicate that something’s not going right. It’s a common thing for moms to be dealing with engorgements still – or maybe not engorgement so much but the discomfort of when the breasts get really full and then they’re emptied a little bit and then fill back up. So, moms whole experience that a lot during the second week. But, I think mostly probably still that uncertainty.

Robin Kaplan: Okay. Ladies, did you deal with any of these challenges and did you also have other ones that you dealt with? Erin, I know you mentioned Cash had a tongue-tied.

Erin Esteves: Yes, he had the tongue-tied like I said: “I had the hypersensitivity. So, I don’t know now looking back how I managed to actually get through the breastfeeding experience and I know that Robin came to our house a couple of times to help with us. If it hadn’t been for the lactation consultant and the support, I wouldn’t been able to do it because I couldn’t get him to latch. Nothing was going right. It was just too painful. I just remember constantly crying, being in tears at all times. My toes curled and my baby trying to latch on – so the challenge to say the least.

Robin Kaplan: Yes, definite soreness going on.

Erin Esteves: Yes, I wouldn’t say at two weeks you’re out of the woods yet.

Robin Kaplan: Yes, good point. Yes, how about you Sara?

Sara Thornhill: Yes, I think by two weeks my daughter was at that time, she was probably – we were starting to head our stride a little bit. She had figured out really how to latch. I think this time around like you said the nipple soreness was gone by two weeks. I think I had a mild infection associated with a clog to dock at that point. I started feeling kind of achy-like, flu-like in also with just a clog and my kind of marbled breasts. So, it was resolved.

Robin Kaplan: I guess my side if that was going to happen, often

Ashley Treadwell: It’s the most common time because it’s when our breasts are filling up really full so we’re more prone to clogs. Yes, the 2 to 3 to 4 week is when that can happen. It can happen all the time but most commonly then.

Robin Kaplan: Okay. Ashley, what if a baby is preferring one side over the other? What causes this and how can a mom help her baby latch to both sides comfortably?

Ashley Treadwell: So, babies like us if we go to sleep and lay in one position all night long – we wake up and we have a stiffed neck. It hurts to turn our head a certain way. If you think baby most likely has been one position in Utero for most of their times. So, babies can come out and be a little stiff. They can prefer one position over the other. A really simple, sort of positioning tool that moms can use is if the baby prefers cross-cradle on the right side. They can just move the baby over to do football on the left side. So, the baby is still lying on the same side. They don’t know that they have switched sides. I also recommend to a lot of my moms’; if baby is really tight, we have specialists who can do baby work on bodies and help sort of loosen everything up and get them aligned. We have CranioSacral Therapist that we refer to and Chiropractors and that can help baby feed much more comfortably. Moms often find that the side that the baby has difficulty with is also the side that’s sorer. The latch sometimes can be compromised because the baby isn’t as comfortable.

Robin Kaplan: Yes, absolutely. What if a baby is choking and coughing while breastfeeding which Sara I wonder if you notice this. Is this because the flow is too fast? There’s too much milk or something else entirely?

Ashley Treadwell: The most common reason is: “Moms with big let downs.” Moms that have very fast let-downs; it takes the babies a couple of weeks to learn how to manage it. So, sometimes during those first few minutes when the milk starts to flow, baby will pull-off and sort of sputter and choke and then they’ll latched back on. Most babies, as long as everything is going on in atomically, well with them. That they’re able to most babies by two to three weeks are going to start to figure this out. During that time, mom can help by just doing a more laid back position while they breastfeed because then gravity is helping the baby. If babies do have a tongue-tie or a lip-tie something that would be causing them or preventing them from being able to create a suction, that can make even a letdown that isn’t very fast a difficult for a baby to manage. So, that’s when they would probably want to have that assessed.

Robin Kaplan: Sara, did you noticed that with Charlie?

Sara Thornhill: Yes, pretty much every time.

Robin Kaplan: Multiple let downs per nursing session and each time it heals choking gas. But, no – he’s fine and sometimes I allow him to kind of come of the breast and allow the letdown to just feed that into a rag or whatever.

Robin Kaplan: Okay. So, now, that he’s four weeks old, is he kind of managing it a little bit more easily now?

Sara Thornhill: Still choking with it.

Robin Kaplan: He has no problems with it, he just keeps going?

Sara Thornhill: No, I am just grateful that there’s milk in and everything’s coming through.

Robin Kaplan: Absolutely. Ashley, when do you recommend for a mom to introduce the bottle and should she start pumping during the second week?

Ashley Treadwell: We recommend that moms introduce the bottle and start pumping during weeks 3 to 5. Most babies go through growth spurts right around two weeks and during that time; we want all stimulation to be from baby. We want all the milk that the baby is getting to be from mom. So, we usually recommend to wait for that growth spurt to end and then, sometime between week 3 and week 5 would be a good time to start pumping and then introduce the bottle.

Robin Kaplan: Okay and Ashley, Kara had posted on our Facebook Page. Why does my two-week old only sleep while I’m holding him?

Ashley Treadwell: Because that’s the only place he’s every slept.

Robin Kaplan: It’s pretty good. I never thought about that.

Ashley Treadwell: It’s so common and we get these questions a lot from parents. I think parents have this sort of – first time parents maybe think that babies are going to come out and then when we see pictures in commercials of babies lying on their beds and sleeping and babies don’t do that. They are just coming from having been inside. It’s all they know. It’s warm. The sounds are muffled. It’s quiet, it’s soft. They can hear your heart beat and then they come out in there in this big, bright, cold world and they just want to go back to where they were. So, babies often want to be held. A lot of people refer to the first three months of a baby’s life as the fourth trimester – so they were inside for three and now, they’re going to be as close to they can be as for that fourth. So, it’s really normal behaviour. They’re not going to do it forever. They’re not going to be in high school, still sleeping on your child. That’s when you’ll want them too and they won’t want anything to do with you.

Robin Kaplan: Good point. Ladies, where did your babies sleep best during those early weeks? Did you find that your kiddos slept best while being held? Erin, how about you?

Erin Esteves: Absolutely, I wore him constantly. My husband and I took turns and we have tons of pictures of that first month where the kid was never put down. That was the only way to keep him calm and happy.

Robin Kaplan: How about you Sara?

Sara Thornhill: Well, I’m wearing Charlie right now.

Robin Kaplan: He’s passed out. He’s passed out on your chest, absolutely.

Sara Thornhill: Yes, with my daughter we had some reservations about this. I didn’t think I wanted her in my bed like we were afraid. We have this discussion a lot in my marriage. My God. Are we going to have her in our bed forever? But, it all happened right now actually in with this one, it seems the right thing to me. I get the best sleep bed-sharing. So, that’s where we, as a family personally get all the best sleep all the way round.

Mj Fisher: That’s what most of our Virtual Panelists are saying too. Annie over Muler says: Right next to me in bed, best sleep I ever got. -Annie
Robin Kaplan: I know you can attest to that too, Mj.

Mj Fisher: Yes, that’s exactly the way that it went for us. We never put Jason down. I was like: “First mom, this is something’s wrong; this baby doesn’t want to ever do anything without being on me.” Now, that I know 2 ½ almost three years later that it’s – that’s just the way that it should be. When he doesn’t want to be with me now, it’s like: “You think back on the time you missed that time.”

Robin Kaplan: Yes, absolutely. I think you brought up a really wise point thing as well Erin and Sara that wearing your baby too because I feel like: “A lot of moms can sometimes feel like they can’t get up because they have the sleeping baby and while most of that time, it’s kind of nice.” I think it is nature’s way to kind of take a step back and relax and actually take a break because otherwise, we’d be up cooking dinner. So, holding our babies and breastfeeding keeps us kind of sedentary, quiet and bonding with them. But, sometimes especially for example, Sara you said: “You have an older child who probably wants you to get up and play with her.” So, being able to wear your child where Erin you’re saying that: “That’s where Cash wanted to be and that’s where he was happiest.” Wearing them, keeps them skin-on-skin on you and sleeping on you but you’re able to also move around to which is really cool.

Erin Esteves: For me, sorry because I had read about the fourth trimester, I personally needed that extra time that extra closeness with him because it was a shocking reality. So, yes I really just a huge proponent of baby wearing.

Sara Thornhill: To your point Erin, I had pretty bad baby blues with my daughter and I think again, a lot of that I now attribute to the separation that we had, kind of swaddling her up and putting her down on the other side of the room and admiring her from afar. With this baby, I just really made a decision to: “Strip down to the ways and get him skin-to-skin against me and often wearing him that way.” I notice in the first towards the end of the first week, I spend a couple of days with appointments and what-not with him dressed and me dressed. Then, kind of little bit of separation and I started to have my baby blues back. I kind of have 6:00 that night, started crying out of nowhere and I thought: “I need more Oxytocin.” So, the baby wearing really does that for me. Also, I pick up on cues a lot there.

Robin Kaplan: Absolutely. Well, you can see when he’s hungry.

Sara Thornhill: Yes, I’m feeling I’m squirmed.

Robin Kaplan: Absolutely. So, Ashley, one of the things that definitely took me by surprise at two weeks was my son’s growth spurt. So, would you mind describing a little bit about what are growth spurts and what is their purpose and how long do they last for and all those good details.

Ashley Treadwell: So, growth spurts are a natural occurrence; they happen at somewhat specific times – 2 weeks, 6 weeks, 3 months and 6 months. It’s a time when the baby is going to help boost mom’s supply and baby’s going to do this by: “Demanding milk the way that milk is supplied is by demand.” The more we demand, the more we make. So, the baby’s going to demand-demand-demand. Baby who went from the two-week growth spurt sometimes those babies are still feeding pretty frequently but maybe a baby that was going an hour and a half, two hours between feedings. You’re going to have anywhere from 24 to 72 hours with this kid’s going to wanting to eat all the time. I tried and talk to my moms about this ahead of time because it can be a big scare for a lot of women. They think that they don’t have a supply suddenly, what’s happen to their milk? So, we try and talk to them pre-emptively and say that this is normal. The best thing that you can do is: “Keep the baby at the breast.”

Robin Kaplan: Another thing that you bring up too is that: “Mom may not feel as full in her breast as well because baby is actually feeding more frequently.”

Ashley Treadwell: Right.

Robin Kaplan: So, no longer feeling of fullness and engorgement can also scare moms as well.

Ashley Treadwell: At the same time that the baby is wanting to eat all the time. It’s common for moms to think that something’s going wrong. If you can stop and think: “Well, how old is the baby and if the baby’s 10 days, 11 days, 14, 15. I know this is probably a growth spurt but it’s going to last for a few days and then, if you’re lucky some babies’ sleep for the next couple of days, not all of them but some of them.

Robin Kaplan: Yes, absolutely. Ladies, do you remember your babies growth spurt and what it looked like and how long it lasted for? Sara, do you remember it all?

Sara Thornhill: I really internalized the attitude of: “As long as the baby is gaining you appropriately don’t pay attention.”

Robin Kaplan: That’s a good one.

Sara Thornhill: So, unfortunately, I don’t have a really great account to that but

Robin Kaplan: Where you knew that he was gaining so that was the most important

Sara Thornhill: Yes, he’s been gaining. Yes, to the point where in the hospital – they were asking me: “When’s the last time you nurse him, for how long? I’m going: “I really don’t know.” So, I’m sorry I can’t really comment.

Robin Kaplan: No, that’s okay. Erin, do you remember it all?

Erin Esteves: Yes. Well, because it was so painful for me. It was so traumatic. So, he would constantly be there. Literally, I remember one time in particular that I was sitting on the lounge and I didn’t get up for hours. It was just so upsetting because my friends were coming in and it was like: “A revolving door.” My friends were coming in to try and help me feel better and there was nothing that could be done. I would just cry. I would just go on and on. Thankfully, I was like: “Okay, I know what’s happening.” But logic and reason don’t live in the same house. So, it was difficult but I’m glad to say it again that: “It was through the support that I was able to push through.”

Ashley Treadwell: Well, growth spurts are really tough to go through if you’re having pain. I hate telling my moms who are having issues with latch and sore nipples that: “So in a few days, your baby’s going to want to eat all the time.” That can’t be comfortable.

Erin Esteves: No. So, we would use the nipple shields and then I would pump and then, we would try and finger feeding and even my husband who would do the finger feeding. His fingers would be so thrashed. He’d be like: “This is happening to your nipple?” Both of them. So, I use a lot of the homeopathic ointments and then the icing and then the cabbage leaves. I tried everything under the sun. So, I just want moms to know that it does pass.

Robin Kaplan: Absolutely. Well, the thing with growth spurts to that are so important to know about is that: “No matter what your supply looks like, baby is going to go through them because it’s like mini puberty.” So, they have to go through them because it’s like Ashley said: “Way to build up your milk supply.” So, nature’s already put in that component into their little brains so that they have to go through them. So, but also I love them for one reason particular is that: “They often wake up the sleepy baby at this two-week point.” So, sometimes babies that have been kind of poky and having a hard time waking up and stuff; they hit that second week growth spurt and it’s like hitting the reset button. All of the sudden they’re like: “Bing, I’m awake.” So, sometimes it turns around slow weight gain and stuff like that.

Mj Fisher: Sometimes they don’t sleep all night either. Well, they’re nursing all night. That’s what happened to me. I remember one night; I just woke up and like: “Jason, my husband was sleeping next to me and I just started crying.” I was just like: “I don’t know if I could do this.” All night long, at that point we were – we bed share still but I was not sleeping well at that point. Then, one time too when we were just up like it was right around dinner time, I remembered handing them to my husband and saying: “I just fed him for an hour, he’s got to be fine and he was crying and crying.” So, I called my mid-wife and she had told us about feeding on demand but I’m just like: “I just fed him.” I just couldn’t understand like that he was still wanting to eat.” So, I think just knowing and founding out too that it was normal and other moms obviously were going through the same thing was so helpful.

Robin Kaplan: You bring up a real good point about normal infant behaviour during the second week too. What is up with the babies wanting to party like rock stars in the middle of the night? So, why does that happen?

Ashley Treadwell: So, a lot of babies come out with their nights and days mixed up and that’s because: “While they were in Utero, you were up moving around all day and the baby was rocked to sleep and then at night, when you would lay down, it would get quiet and still, the baby would wake up.” So, a lot of babies were born and nurse still in that sort of cycle, that rhythm. It takes a few weeks, not all some babies but it takes a few weeks and they usually figure it out.

Robin Kaplan: How’s that going with you now Sara? Have your days and nights gotten back to normal yet?

Ashley Treadwell: Yes, this baby sleeps a lot during the night and some fortunate; my daughter had a hard time of it. But, fortunately, I can sleep through nursing for the most part. I think you made a good point that there’s someone that can and for them, I have so much empathy because that’s really, that’s a God Send if you can sleep through it.

Erin Esteves: Yes, I can’t. Those few times that I have, I have very strange dreams. Who is pulling my nipple? But, the all-night – like Mj was saying: “They were occasions and still to this day, if he’s not feeling well or something – we can literally and actually go all night long with my boob in his mouth.” I have to talk myself off the ledge all the time about it.”

Robin Kaplan: Well, and knowing that it’s all going to pass.

Erin Esteves: Yes.

Robin Kaplan: That’s huge. All right, well thank you so much Ashley and to our incredible panelists for sharing this valuable information about breastfeeding during the baby’s second week. For our boob group club members, our conversation will continue after the end of the show as Ashley will discuss: “Cluster feeding and how to power through it.” For more information about our Boob Group Club, please visit our website at www.newmommymedia.com .

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Autumn: Hi Boob Group. My name is Autumn and I am the co-owner and founder of Tailored Fitness, the solution for helping busy moms find mom to exercise. Once you recover from the delivery of your baby, one of the things that’s probably on your mind is getting back into your pre-pregnancy clothes.

The great news is: “That you can with the combination of healthy eating and exercise.” The bad news is: “It might take a while.” Remember: “It took you nine months to gain a pregnancy month and it takes most women about 9 to 12 months to lose it.” One of the ways you can speed up the progress is: “By including strength exercises into your workout routine.”

Most women’s workouts consist of mostly walking and running. While these are great activities, they’re not the fastest way to fit back into your jeans. Strength training will help you build lean muscle tone which increases your metabolism so you will burn more calories just at rest. Speaking of calories, remember: “It’s important that your daily caloric intake stays above 1500. Plus, add on more calories to make up for the ones you’ve burned during your workout so that you don’t risk lowering your milk supply.” To learn some strength exercises specifically for new moms, visit www.MyTailoredFitness.com . Try one of our trainer design workouts and keep tuning in to The Boob Group.

Robin Kaplan: That wraps up our show for today. We appreciate you listening to The Boob Group.

Don’t forget to check out our sister show:

• Preggie Pals for expecting parents
• Our show Parent Savers for moms and dads with newborns, infants and toddlers
• And our most recent show, Twin Talks for parents of multiples.

Thanks for listening to The Boob Group, your judgment-free breastfeeding resource.

[Disclaimer]
This has been a New Mommy Media production. Information and material contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Statements and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. Though information in which areas are related to be accurate, it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, Medical or advisor care and should not be used for diagnosing or treating health care problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you have questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby, please seek assistance from a qualified health care provider.

SUNNY GAULT: New Mommy Media is expanding our line up of shows for new and expecting parents. If you have an idea for a new series or if you’re a business or organization interested in joining our network of shows through a co-branded podcast, visit www.NewMommyMedia.com .

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