Preggie Pals
Miscarriage and Stillbirth: Dealing With Loss

Please be advised, this transcription was performed from a company independent of New Mommy Media, LLC. As such, translation was required which may alter the accuracy of the transcription.

[00:00:00]

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Yvonne Rothermel : The loss of a baby no matter how early in pregnancy- is real and so is the grief that comes with it. How do you cope with losing a child? What are some of the challenges and how can you find the support to deal with this difficult experience? I am Yvonne Rothermel, a licensed Clinical Social Worker specializing postpartum disorders, birth trauma and infant loss and this is Preggie Pals, Episode 33.

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Sunny Gault : Welcome to Preggie Pals broadcasting from the Birth Education Center of San Diego, I am your host Sunny Gault. Have you heard about the Preggie Pals club? This is our exclusive membership club for all of our loyal listeners; you get all of our archived episodes, bonus material after every new show and special giveaways and discounts. Visit our website https://www.preggiepals.com for more information, okay so before we start with today’s show we are gonna introduce our panelists here in the studio and all of our panelists today have experienced miscarriage first time, sometimes multiple times. So, here are ladies, Emily let’s start with you.

Emily Trent : Okay, my name is Emily Henson Trent, I am 30 years old. I am cook and I don’t have any of my own children yet. I do have an 8 year old step son who is awesome; I have experienced three unsuccessful pregnancies. The first was a miscarriage very early and the second and third had to be medically terminated because of a fetal birth effect called Sirenomelia.

Sunny Gault : Okay, Deborah?

Deborah Boswell : My name Deborah Boswell, I am 44 years old. I am a stay at home and I have two beautiful daughters, I lost two pregnancies like Emily and my first one was very early on and the doctor said that it probably just never really took. And then the second was a medical termination and that was due to Down syndrome that was terminal.

Sunny Gault : Okay and both of those pregnancies were prior to having your girls, correct?

Deborah Boswell : Yes.

Sunny Gault : Okay, okay Suzanne?

Suzanne Wells : I am Suzanne Wells, I am 43 years old, I am Research Scientist. And I have two sons they are 9 years and 10 years those were my first two pregnancies both full term and healthy. I have even lost my next three pregnancies after that, the first last was a 14 week miscarriage, the second was at 25 weeks, I had a premature rupture of my amniotic fluid due to an inter uterine infection called Corioamnionitis. My third last was an 8 week miscarriage again.

Sunny Gault : Okay, thank you ladies for being here.

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[Featured Segment: Breastfeeding Resources While Pregnant]

Sunny Gault : We have a comment from one of our listeners this comes from Cary of Organ and she sends us this message through Facebook. Cary says “Hi, Preggie Pals I have been listening to your show ever since I found out I was pregnant, being a first time mom I have a lot of questions about breastfeeding. So, your recent episode listing the top ten reasons to breastfeed was very helpful to me in fact I downloaded it through my app so, I could refer to it after the baby is born just in case if I need some reassurance. You always hear that breast is best but knowing the ins and outs of why is also really important. Thanks for providing us soon to be mom’s, it was such a great resource.” Well, thank you so much Cary for sending us this lovely message through Facebook, of course if you guys want some great information about breastfeeding during pregnancy or after you have had your baby be sure to check out our sister show the Boob Group at https://www.theboobgroup.com.

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Sunny Gault : Today we are viewing two part focused on loss specifically miscarriage and stillbirth. This is the topic that many of our listeners have asked for and well it’s a difficult topic to talk about, we feel it’s very important to explore all aspects of pregnancy and unfortunately loss of a child does occur. Now, this episode is not intended to scare you but to provide you with information for you out front who may need to do with this difficult experience. Yvonne Rothermel, is an expert for this two series, Yvonne is a licensed Clinical Social Worker specializing in loss. Yvonne, welcome to the show.

Yvonne Rothermel : Thank you, I am glad to be here.

Sunny Gault : So, let’s start of the show by talking about some terms, some definitions here, let’s talk about what a miscarriage is, a stillbirth and a medical termination?

Yvonne Rothermel : Well often times people think miscarriage is just in the first 12 weeks but actually miscarriage is anything before the 20th week, a pregnancy and stillbirth is anything after the 20th week of pregnancy. And medical termination can include a lot of different things it can be due to a medical reason with the mother, a port perinatal diagnosis, a diagnosis that’s incompatible with life and for health of the another feeders they select reduction which you see after the multiple pregnancies.

[00:05:14]

Sunny Gault : Okay, now panelists given these terms that we have just explained what, which of these terms I guess best you know, describes your situation. Emily, let’s start with you.

Emily Trent : My first pregnancy I was lost because I had miscarriage because that was early on, my second and third pregnancies were had to be medically terminated.

Sunny Gault : Okay, alright Deborah.

Deborah Boswell : My first pregnancy was also a miscarriage very early on and my second pregnancy was a medical termination.

Sunny Gault : Okay and Suzanne.

Suzanne Wells : My first loss was a miscarriage, my second was I guess I would consider, I guess will talk later when medical termination and my third was a miscarriage.

Sunny Gault : So, let’s talk about that panelists little more in depth with your own specific situations I guess let’s just talk about what your experience was like for your miscarriages when they were early? I know you guys have some early in their pregnancies, Emily let’s start with you.

Emily Trent : Okay, my, the miscarriage I had was you know, I had just taken a pregnancy test at home, I hadn’t even gone to see a doctor you know, of course I shared the news with my husband we both were really excited about it. And we had actually just gone on a trip to the east coast to visit my family and told my entire family cousins and aunts and everything. And while we were on that trip I experienced the miscarriage so, because I was so excited about it, it was very of course sad and kind of like bewildering and it was even a little bit. I experienced a kind of like different and may be more intense and sadness than I did with the subsequent losses I had just because the subsequent ones I was a little bit more I guess mentally prepared for having experienced those, the first one and the second one. So, even though it was very early on and I hadn’t even gone to see a doctor or got it done or just anything it was you know, it was kind of like I was really sad and freaked out. And you know, that’s what happened with the first one with the miscarriage but then later on I had you know, some more significant issues going on.

Sunny Gault : Deborah, Deborah let’s talk about your situation.

Deborah Boswell : Well, it was similar for me that it was very early on and I had just taken the pregnancy test, I had gone to see the doctor but just to have another pregnancy test. They confirmed that I was pregnant with the blood test but then it was only less than two weeks, later but then I had the miscarriage and went into the emergency room and they didn’t see the pregnancy. And I felt I was, I felt very sad and it seemed like end of the world to me at that time even though it was so early on however, I felt like the doctors and the people around me just kind of made it, made it rather trivial like it was so early I shouldn’t even be concerned about it. You know, they make pregnancy tests very sensitive now and women find out so much earlier than they would have and so we become very attached to the idea of getting pregnant. But to me it was the end of the world at that time and then later when the following pregnancy occurred and everything that happened with that took place it of course over shadowed at least for me. It, it was a much more devastating loss what happened because we were so much more cautious about telling anybody we, we told everybody right away the first time as soon as we took that pregnancy test.

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Deborah Boswell : We announced and then it was over in the blink of an eye.

Sunny Gault : Yeah.

Deborah Boswell : And then when we got pregnant the second time we waited and we followed the rule, the three month rule that you don’t tell anybody until you are three months long. And it was a great big family announcement and then not too long after that only about two months later it was when we found out that, that what was going to happen with that pregnancy.

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Deborah Boswell : And so, it was much more devastating for us then because I felt so much more permanent and I almost don’t even think about the first pregnancy anymore because it, also I think partly because of what they told me to that I came to believe that it was significant because,

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Deborah Boswell : It was so early so,

Sunny Gault : Yeah, Yvonne is that common that it’s kind of shocking to me I guess that it shouldn’t be that, that sometimes medical providers dismiss it?

[00:10:04]

Yvonne Rothermel : It’s unfortunately it happens all the time, if you have someone who has a really good supportive career so lucky because although I think people in the medical profession they mean well and they see this all the time. But for you know, the families it is the first they are going through then it can be very devastating and we also live in a culture that tensed to minimize grief. I recently went to a conference were someone decided to study they asked people “how long does grief lost?” and the people said “you know two to three weeks.” So, you know, we are living in a culture that doesn’t recognize grief and for moms and dads those who go through it’s incredibly difficult to agree the grief in an environment like that because it is not recognized, it’s not validated and it’s very, very difficult.

Sunny Gault : Okay, Suzanne let’s talk about your experience?

Suzanne Wells : For me the first two pregnancies resulted in two healthy children so, the first pregnancy I lost was actually my third pregnancy and I had seen a doctor at 11.5 weeks I believe and things were looking good. And you know, as we had done previously we told everybody right away and we were excited and we have been planning this and hoping for this and we have always been fortunate to conceive rather easily. So, I had no reason to think that anything was wrong but about a week later I started having some spotting and it ended up resulting that, that the baby’s heart beat has stopped. But I was actually at the hospital taking, they offer a class for people that are gonna get an amniocentisis and I was actually attending that class at that time I just thought “well, I am just here I will just go upstairs and take a look but I am sure everything is fine.” And they spent quite a while looking and I just, I think the overwhelming feeling was shock, does belief and denial.

Sunny Gault : Because you had two healthy children?

Suzanne Wells : What, what I remember specifically thinking you know, if I were them and I were looking at this ultrasound I would probably think the same thing. But they are wrong, they must be wrong, how can I am not you know, I am not having any pain of course the pain came you know, within a day. But I just kept saying “are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure?” and I was very fortunate to receive very compassionate care during that experience. So, I think for me it was just you know, like I said because I had, had the two pregnancies that had ended well, I just was very shocked and of course deeply sad.

Sunny Gault : Okay.

Yvonne Rothermel : You know, when I see that often happens is that you go through a loss at that time, at that time you are going through it feels real like you are in a fog. And that’s when everyone comes around you and provides support and then a couple of months later the fog lifts you really starting to feel the impact of what happened, everyone is going about their life, everyone thinks that you are better. And that’s the time that can be so hard and so lonely and you are lost.

Sunny Gault : Alright, when it comes to support I know that it has to be really important when going through any kind of emotional time in your life. So, let’s talk about the support that you did receive and how that helped you through this process, Emily let’s start with you?

Emily Trent : Well, my family was extremely supportive especially you know, my mother, my father, my sister and also my husband, cousins, aunts and uncles were also supportive. But my immediate family was of course my husband was right there with me and he was experiencing with me and he was very sweet and gentle and compassionate with me. And my parents even though they are far away like called me often and that helped, my friends they were very helpful to me and their responses to me and some friends and a lot of coworkers and lot of kind of acquaintances in my life that were not helpful to me. So, I had to kind of pick and choose who I could reach out to, there were just were a few people we knew like what to say, the right things to say. I think the majority of people didn’t know what to say or how to respond to me so, I did have support but I ended up kind of doing my own thing with my healing. I didn’t find really like any support online or in community groups I didn’t really know what to look for so, I ended up just kind of keeping to my own family and friends and finding my own ways to heal myself.

Yvonne Rothermel : Emily and Deborah’s type of loss is a medical termination you know, I think it’s really one of the most supported losses. It’s very hard to find support for women you have gone through medical terminations because often times there is a lot of fear talking about it, lot of fear of judgment.

[00:15:07]

Sunny Gault : Okay.

Yvonne Rothermel : And so, I know Emily we have talked this it’s very hard on the internet, we do research really to find supportive places but there is one site that’s very good which the https://www.heartbreakingchoice.com. So, if anybody is out there listening, who is looking for a non-biased support that’s really a good place to go. It was interesting to me too kind of experience how people reacted to me, people that I expected to be very supportive and compassionate some of them I was surprised to find that I couldn’t really handle the situation talking about it. And some people they knew very, some people that I didn’t know very well were remarkable and how compassionate they were towards me. So, it was interesting to me to kind of see how people can deal with other people’s grief even if they may be close in your life or not close.

Sunny Gault : Alright, Deborah what did support look like?

Deborah Boswell : I had a lot of support from my husband and, and my immediate family, all of my friends and our, and our circle were very supportive. However I found that I backed away from many of my friends especially those who had children and their pregnancies didn’t have any complications. I just felt that I really couldn’t really to at that time and I, and I just didn’t feel like being reminded of it was just another reminder of what could have been that wasn’t and I felt a lack of support from outside services I didn’t really feel like there was support for me out there. The circumstances of our pregnancy we were working with the genetics counselor and I, I felt pretty close to her she was very helpful. There was a counselor at the hospital who gave me some information on support groups but warned me that they may be judgmental of our circumstances. So, I didn’t really even bother trying to go through those organizations and I didn’t really bond with her and it was just we didn’t really connect but I did have a connection with the genetics counselor and she was really helpful. So, at first I felt very isolated and alone and I didn’t really know where to turn and then eventually she matched me with someone who had gone through the same experience under the same circumstances who had similar personality and she felt we might be able to talk.

Sunny Gault : Ah! That’s great.

Deborah Boswell : She gave me her number and she called me and it was, it was she was very helpful and it just felt so good to be able to talk to somebody who had gone through the same thing. But also then she at that time she had successful pregnancies, pregnancies that didn’t have that outcome so, it, it was a big comfort to me.

Sunny Gault : Okay, good.

Deborah Boswell : To talk to her.

Sunny Gault : Good, good, Suzanne what about you?

Suzanne Wells : As I am hearing them talk I am thinking both from my experience and also the experience of the callers that have called into Empty Cradle.

Sunny Gault : Because you are part of Empty Cradle, you work with Empty Cradle?

Suzanne Wells : Yes.

Sunny Gault : Okay.

Suzanne Wells : These are people who have experienced pregnancy loss under over ideal circumstances and I think the one common threat is that we try to provide to everyone is just that you are not alone. And it sound I know that such a cliché statement that people use all the time but it’s really so important I think especially like for me the second loss which was a complicated loss, I felt like “Gosh! This happened to me already, why is this?” I didn’t realize sadly if that doesn’t happen to lots of families and just knowing that it does happen and if there is hope for healing and that people have not only survive the experience but have actually come to a place of acceptance and peace and getting out of that place where you are just so devastated.

Sunny Gault : Yvonne we have talked about grief and how men and women express grief differently, I am trying to relate to the stories that you have been sharing with us today and even though I haven’t lost my own child I don’t know what you are going through but I have experienced the loss of my sibling. And I know that, that can tear families apart in my family it actually brought us together but it’s because we are very intentional.

Yvonne Rothermel : Alright.

Sunny Gault : About it, this is not gonna separate us.

Yvonne Rothermel : Alright.

Sunny Gault : This is gonna bring us together.

Yvonne Rothermel : Alright.

Sunny Gault : And I am just wondering that what that grief process looks like and what we should be aware of when going through something like this?

Yvonne Rothermel : Well you know, what I hear very commonly in my practice is that initially when the loss happens there is a rule coming together but as the grief moves on often times couples grief differently. And there is instrumental griever who deal with grief more confidently might get real busy and then there is intuitive grievers who tend to, really want the emotional support and social support. And when you have different and this can be typically mannered or seen as more as instrumental grievers but that’s not always the case sometime it can be that as well. What happens is you have this different in grieving and then that can lead to a lot of misunderstanding like a lot of moms may feel like “Why isn’t grieving? You know, why I am so alone in this grief?” And often times with dads you often see a delayed grief because dads have this protective measure that they are trying to take care of mom when she is having a hard time. And sometimes moms are very surprised to find that the dads breaking down or you see a see saw effect, moms doing better dad feels down, dads doing better mom feels down. That’s the way they, it’s kind of a rhythm to that and so all these things can really lead to a lot of miscommunication but I really like to say that there is real myth out there that once you lose your baby you lose your marriage like it’s kind of you know, ravel. And compassionate friends which is one of the biggest organizations you know, it states that parents did a study, two studies actually and found that you know, grief parents are more anymore likely to divorce and other groups. So, I think it’s an important myth to dispel because when you lose your baby you think “Oh! Gosh and now I am gonna lose my family and this.” It can happen in this case but you do need to keep your communication lines open and respect each other’s different ways of grieving.

[00:21:34]

Sunny Gault : Alright, what advice do you have for those whose husbands may be they are experiencing the grief but they are not showing it and therefore the women just doesn’t know what to do?

Yvonne Rothermel : You know, I think educating moms a lot on, on ways that often dads grieve differently and what that looks like is important. I think bringing dads into the process into the fold is important, dads are often really forget about in this whole process and dads have their own feelings about it. And often like Suzanne said they feel incredibly helpless about it and they don’t know what to do and they see moms upset and they don’t know how to fix it. You know, men like to kind of make things better and fix it.

Suzanne Wells : People are always asking how is your wife doing?

Yvonne Rothermel : Yes, yes, yes.

Suzanne Wells : They don’t even acknowledge perhaps he is devastated as well.

Sunny Gault : Yeah.

Yvonne Rothermel : Yes and you know, some like Suzanne said it’s an early loss you know, I think men attach the pregnancy as it goes along you know, and so the earlier losses that may be harder, harder you know, not for everybody but for some. And I think we really have to work on getting women’s support you know, outside the relationship to sometimes as well and making sure that they are supported. And also you know, so it doesn’t mean that he is a bad guy you know, you didn’t marry the wrong person.

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Yvonne Rothermel : It’s just that they have different ways of dealing and coping with situations.

Sunny Gault : Okay.

Emily Trent : I think too that it’s so different with men and women dealing with a loss of a pregnancy because I know that when I had my losses my body just felt so lonely like my body just felt like empty and sad. And he had more of like an intellectual sadness which I also had you know, I also lost the expectations and everything like that, my body it was just like a physical feeling that he didn’t have. So, I think you know, like Yvonne said definitely communicating with each other and talking about what you are actually feeling like physically and emotionally I think is really important.

Sunny Gault : Yeah, Yvonne is that, is that what is referred to as a secondary loss?

Yvonne Rothermel : Well, secondary losses are any losses that come about as a result of your first loss so, yes I mean, I mean feeling like you are not communicating with your partner as a result the loss can be a secondary loss. One of the big ones is this loss have the blissful naiveté that you see that other pregnant women have,

Sunny Gault : The pregnancy goal and all of that?

Yvonne Rothermel : Yes that is lost, it really is lost for, for moms who have been through the loss because you don’t ever take it for granted you have been on the other side of stick. So, it’s very hard to be reassured but things are gonna be okay and so, yeah those are secondary losses. All those things that Emily said certain friends who she may be that would come through who didn’t that’s a secondary loss a lot of moms talk about dads that they don’t some of the friends, who really know who your friends are in this.

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Yvonne Rothermel : And I think grief you know, it’s like deer in the headlights people do not know what to say and do and I just tell people out there you just have to show up, okay. You just have to be there, you have to be present you know, find ways to help don’t wait for them to call you. Just as simple “I am sorry, I love you, I am sorry.”

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Deborah Boswell : One other aspect of men’s, partners grieving is that my husband shared with me that he was actually almost in a way afraid to show because I was grieving so deeply. And I was so sad, he was afraid to really show it sounds strange because we are very close but at the same time he, he, what ended up happening his, his one of his close friends had lost his father within a period of weeks prior to our loss. And that was a loss for him too, the two of them went and had a beer and talked and he said “he felt more comfortable sharing with his friend John because he wanted to be strong for me.”

[00:25:24]

Sunny Gault : I see.

Deborah Boswell : So, that can happen and, and but sometimes we misinterpret that there are not said, right.

Sunny Gault : That they are not feeling the same thing, right. Alright and we are gonna talk about that a little bit more after the break so, when we come back we are gonna talk about the ways you can get the help you need when you are losing a child and where do you can approach this delegate topic with friends and loved ones. We will be right back.

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Sunny Gault : Welcome back today we are talking about miscarriage and stillbirth dealing with losses is the two part series that we are doing and Yvonne Rothermel is our expert, she is a licensed Clinical Social Worker. And prior to going into the break we started to talk a little bit about what do you say to someone who is enduring loss, who has just lost a child and Yvonne I wanna throe this over to you first. What are some of your recommendations and then we will ask some of the panelists what worked for them, what didn’t work, what should you say, what should you not say?

Yvonne Rothermel : First of all if you don’t know what to say don’t annoy the person because that’s the worst thing you can do because that just adds to the isolation ness. I think you know, just saying “I don’t know what to say, I just wanna give you a hug and I am so sorry” I think not okay to offer cliché “Oh! You can get pregnant again. Oh! You know.” There is sometimes people see these losses as replaceable and every pregnancy and every baby needs to be more so you don’t want to be minimized at all their loss. So, I think that’s important I think also not saying but doing is important were you can you know, show up may be if they have other kids you can help carpool, you can get a food tree going, you can what’s really helpful I think is getting memorial fund together friends. You just get donate a little bit and give it to them for them to buy bench or buy a star that they name after them some sort of you know, active think plan a garden, tree you know, you just show up. It’s the most important thing don’t go away because that’s the worst thing you can do for people. I also think you know, there is a myth out there that you bring it up you are gonna upset the person but the truth is it’s on their mind 24/7. So, you know, by bringing it up and saying “Hey you know, how are you doing? I have been thinking about you, how are you doing?” And then use the baby’s name if they named it “how’s Maya doing? I am thinking about you and Maya. How are you doing with all that?” You know, just bring it up you know, bringing it up is not gonna make them, usually in most cases not more sad, it may for some people but usually not because they are thinking about it anyway.

Sunny Gault : Alright, alright. Suzanne let’s start with you what did people say what worked and what didn’t work?

Suzanne Wells : Like Yvonne said just being present there’s nothing you can say,

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Suzanne Wells : To, to really make that person feel better there is no magic words or sentence that you can offer them so, just simply expressing love and support “I am sorry” really speaks volume. And again not minimizing the loss one of the kindest things that one of my friends who interestingly is not, who doesn’t have children is not married she is single; she bought a book for my children. Called we were gonna have a baby but we had an angel instead and she sent it to them and it’s a beautiful book and it’s meant for children. And I thought that was a very beautiful gesture especially coming from someone who doesn’t have a family you know, to so, that was a very, very thoughtful and kind thing. Perhaps not saying I understand if, if you really haven’t experienced any sort of profound loss in your life it may feel like a loving comment. But to me I really I never felt resentful of anyone who was trying, who was trying to be supportive you know, my own mother was unfortunately was not one of the most supportive people you know, she kept saying “why do you keep trying to get pregnant? Why do you, why do you keep doing that?” And then you know, rather than when I would share news of being pregnant and say “Oh! Ooh! Oh!” so you know,

Sunny Gault : Put doubt in your mind even?

Suzanne Wells : I don’t know if it was so much of doubt, I just wanted her to celebrate the pregnancy with me because,

Sunny Gault : Yeah.

Suzanne Wells : We celebrate each pregnancy, we don’t know how it’s gonna end but we celebrate each pregnancy.

Sunny Gault : Alright, Deborah tell us about your situation what worked and what didn’t work?

[00:30:02]

Deborah Boswell : The same thing saying “I am sorry, I am here” just knowing that they were there and my friends were not backing away from me, they weren’t hiding from me. And like I said I was trying away from them for, for my own reasons but I knew that they were there and they were supportive, they all called and all sent cards and brought me meals because we certainly weren’t cooking and eating. And you know, so they were just anything that they could think off to try to make life easier for us at that time they were doing I responded to them you know, in the way that they expected me to or not. They, they still were there even though I was trying away and that was what I needed.

Suzanne Wells : One thing that people may not know and I have heard this from a lot grief parents including myself that sending a bouquet though it’s a thoughtful kind of idea for many of it’s like something else we have to take care off. And then it’s gonna die and we will have to throw the dead flowers away,

Sunny Gault : Oh! My goodness I didn’t think of that.

Suzanne Wells : And why would you, it’s not intuitive but I would tell you I, I when I received flowers my first thought was “Thank you” and then I was “Oh! God I have to care for this.” And then it’s got flowers it’s gonna die and then it’s just another, it sounds strange but I have met other families were that was a shared experience but you know, or even a parted plan again I have to water, I have to care for it. So, though in those early days you, you are just trying to survive I think so perhaps like Yvonne said you know, planting something in the child’s memory would be a much more profound gift to the grief family sending them a plant if that make sense I think.

Sunny Gault : Yeah, anyone can really answer this but I am wondering how quickly should someone reach out, I mean can you do it right away. A lot of times when I know people are grieving I am thinking you know, they may just need some time to themselves in the very beginning or with their spouse or whatever you know, your situation is. Is that true or do you want everyone you know, at your side this may depend on the person again?

Yvonne Rothermel : I think that’s very individual.

Sunny Gault : Okay.

Yvonne Rothermel : And likely with technology we have lots of ways to reach out that’s non-intrusive, right?

Sunny Gault : Yeah.

Yvonne Rothermel : Email or fax just saying “I am thinking of you” you know, even if people like back away which I think is very common you know, you back away for a while kind of like cocoon.

Sunny Gault : Yeah.

Yvonne Rothermel : And still getting emails and just saying “you know what you don’t have to respond to this but I am just thinking about you.”

Sunny Gault : I love it you said that because I think that it relieves the pressure for you guys to feel like “Oh! No I have got answer these emails or gonna be mad at me.” But I don’t even know that’s going into your head but you know, I don’t wanna add, nobody wants to add pressure they wanna help that’s why they are reaching out.

Yvonne Rothemel : Alright.

Sunny Gault : So, I like that idea of saying “you don’t have to respond, don’t worry I just want to know if you need me here.”

Yvonne Rothermel : Yeah, I was just gonna say one, sometimes people say how could I help? One of the most helpful things for many families is sending that sure in the email to let people know what has happened and so that we don’t have to repeat this story over and over in those early days that’s a very helpful thing.

Sunny Gault : That obviously will go to you first.

Yvonne Rothermel : Of course, yes but what I am saying is perhaps one could ask you know, have you notified, is there some people I could notify would that be helpful for you?

Sunny Gault : Yeah.

Yvonne Rothermel : I remember sitting and hearing in my phone ringing and hearing the message and being grateful that they called but not in a place to pick up their phone.

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Yvonne Rothermel : Felt grateful that they called.

Sunny Gault : Alright.

Deborah Boswell : So, one thing that was not helpful to me, some people has said to me you know, “Oh! Well there is a reason for everything” that was not helpful to me in anyway because I was like, like Suzanne was saying I was just trying to get through the day, I was trying like survive through the day. I don’t want to like intellectually explore “okay, what is the reason for this and I had done any fault or it is wrong or is something wrong with me?” because in my case like my pregnancies had to be terminated because of a very rare defect that there is very little known about. So, to kind of like even allow myself to explore possibilities of that, that I was, had fault with that there is some kind of like grand cosmic reason for this happening to me not helpful at least in that very initial phase. But one thing that was like extremely helpful to me and It was just a small gesture but, but it was so such a relief to me I mean I was at work and I am a cook so I work in a kitchen and a co-worker of mine was getting a cup of coffee and he just asked me “how you doing?” He had no idea actually what was happening and I started to like tear up and get kind of like teary and all that, he was like “are you okay?” and I am like told him, he had known that I was pregnant and I told him kind of generally like the surface level thing that what happened. And he just said “Thank you for telling me that” and I was like “Oh! It was such a weight off my shoulders” because in a situation where you are like a, you know, having a baby is such a happy thing and pregnancy is such a happy thing, that’s the way it should be. But when you lose the baby like Yvonne said a lot of people avoid talking to people because I don’t want to say so, then that makes me not know what to say to other people and I don’t know when to say “can I talk to you about this or I just wanna like vent on you” Because I don’t wanna be bringing people down to so, for him to just say “Thank you for sharing that with me” was so like amazing awesome because I just felt like “Oh! Wow you can be here and share this phase with me” and like here me say my problem and not be like,

[00:35:40]

Sunny Gault : Trying to fix it or,

Deborah Boswell : Or be all bummed out you know, weird so, if you don’t know what to say just say you know, “thank you for sharing that with me because that was awesome of him to do that.”

Sunny Gault : Yeah, well speaking and sharing I wanna thank you guys for being here today and sharing your experiences with us and with our listeners I really think that this could help a lot of women out there. And I think you were very brave to share your stories and I am sorry for your experiences but again if we can help other people you know, by going through stuff like this we are surely gonna try so, thank you guys for being here.

Deborah Boswell : Thank you.

Suzanne Wells : Thank you.

Emily Trent : Thank you.

Sunny Gault : I know we have talked too much about the various resources available to brief parents but we will link to those resources on the episode page on our website.

[Theme Music]

[Featured Segment: The Best Online Pregnancy Resources]

Sunny Gault : Before we wrap todays show here is Janet McColic with some of “the Best Online Pregnancy Resources.”

Janet McColic : Hello, Preggie Pals I am Janet McColic of “Breast Well” we the “Breast Well” believe that you as a mother will make the right decision for your pregnancy and birth. When you have access to enumerate information and a strong support system, that’s why I am here to share with you new media tools to find information that’s right for you. Today about one in three women in United States will give birth by cesarean section, if you have had a surgical birth and pregnant again you may be considering a vaginal birth after cesarean. Commonly known as a VBAC, 45% of mothers are interested in VBAC but most delivered by C section, why? In some cases the repeat surgery is medically necessary but other mothers tell us that they don’t feel like that they don’t have the information what they needed to make the right decision for their family or they can’t find a provider or they don’t know all the options including in some areas. https://www.vbacfacts.com was created by a mom whose first baby was delivered surgically and she wanted something different for her next birth. She was frustrated by what was available online; she wanted to know the research to know the risks and to know her option. After her feedback she launched this site for other mothers looking for information, wondering about the risk of uterus rupture this is the most common complication of VBAC or the relative risks of her surgical birth. You will find it at her site along there is a comprehensive list of resources of finding a VBAC friendly provider. She also shares a step by step plan for women considering vaginal birth including tips for talking to those who question your plan. You can also get your questions answered at the very active VBAC facts community over on Facebook; just follow the links in the website at https://www.vbacfacts.com Thanks for listening to today’s tools for finding the information that’s right for you and be sure to Preggie Pals for more great pregnancy tips.

Sunny Gault : That wraps up our show for today if you have questions for Yvonne about the topics we discussed today or other issues dealing with loss you can send us an email through our website or call our Preggie Pals hotline at 619-866-4775 and will get your questions answered. For members of the Preggie Pals club this conversation continues as we explore blame as a relate to losing a child many parents blame themselves for the loss. So, how do you overcome that , coming up next week we are continuing two part series focusing on pregnancy after loss so, we hope you join us for that, thanks for listening to Preggie Pals your pregnancy, your way.

[Disclaimer]

This has been a New Mommy Media production. Information and material contained in this episode are presented for educational purposes only. Statements and opinions expressed in this episode are not necessarily those of New Mommy Media and should not be considered facts. Though the information in which areas are related to be accurate it is not intended to replace or substitute for professional, Medical or advisor care and should not be used for diagnosing or treating any health care problem or disease or prescribing any medications. If you have questions or concerns regarding your physical or mental health or the health of your baby, please seek assistance from a qualified health care provider.

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